Category: Daily Living
Hello everyone. I am sure I am most likely going to get flamed out by someone on this topic, but I feel it is important to share. For a long time now, I have read many peoples opinions of blindness centers, and most of them are positive. but every now and then, I come across the random post from someone who think they are a waist of time. To tell you the truth, I used to think this as well. I grew up with parents who wouldn't settle for anything less than me performing as well, if not better than my sighted counterparts. Living this life stile, I had to learn how to do things on my own. I decided to go to a training center even though I could take care of myself and travel just fine, because there is no blind person out there that knows everything about daily living. I love learning other ways of doing things, and even though I could have continued my life just fine without the training, I got plenty out of it. Not everyone shares my love of learning how to do things though, and that is fine. But there are blind people out there that have been sheltered. Some have grown up with parents who didn't think they could do anything, and so they do not know how to do things. They have grown up with parents that shielded them from situations that would allow them to learn how to do things. There are blind people out there who did not grow up blind, and are used to going through life depending on sight. So while blindness centers are not for everyone, they do serve a roll in many people's lives as independent blind people. I am interested to hear what people think on this matter.
I agree with you. I've said this same thing on that Blind Inc board.
Agreed. I never realized how fortunate I was, growing up with the parents I did, until I actually started meeting other blind people and realizing how sheltered and unprepared for life most of them were. those of us who had parents that taught us to be independent and perform equal to sighted siblings or peers are among a fortunate minority, it seems.
Definitely Alicia. My family still doesn't understand my blindness to this day. They just assume.
I have to agree myself. Even though my parents pushed me to do most things I still picked up skills from the brief times I went to training centers so they do have their place.
In my post regarding my experience at a training center, I had failed to mention that I had tried having a vision rehabilitation person come to my parents' house and work with me on some cooking and other daily living things, but she only came once or twice every two weeks. I needed the consistency I got at the training center in Minnesota. I needed to do cleaning, cooking and all that five days a week and outsie of class each day and on weekends in my own living environment to really build confidence in myself. My dad has a better philosophy regarding blind people living their lives and learning on the same level as sighted folks better than mom. To this day, she still wonders how on Earth I'm going to get to where I need to go, always playing the what-if card. what if it rains? What if you get lost? etc ... I just ignore her and carry on with what I need to get done.
Ok I lost my prior post so I'm going to try this again.
First off, disagreement is not flaming. Socratic argument is not flaming. I know in this social networking world, to not follow the groupthink is to be the automatic evil opposite.
However, knowing what I know of the OP, I'm assuming the OP is too honorable for such silliness and attempt to bring up what I see as some valid questions / concerns:
* ... no blind person out there that knows everything about ...
That is total absurdity in an argument, as it is by definition true of any field or any area of knowledge. That has nothing at all to do with anything, except perhaps schoolyard games.
And, take the word "blind" out of the equation, leave "daily living" in it, the statement is still true.
A young woman who lived for awhile in my apartment building here had a leak in the ceiling, water was running all over her floor. She called maintenance from the hallway, I was just passing by. When I asked if she needed pots or rags, she had no idea what I was talking about, so I asked if I could come in and help her. A few minutes later, some rags were sopping up the mess on the floor, a couple pots were down catching the leaks, and she had instructions to empty the pots a couple times a day until Maintenance got there. Nobody knows everything about daily living, right? I assume that leaking ceilings applies to what they call daily living?
So: Does she belong at a training center? Why or why not? If she was blind, some would assert that she didn't know because she was blind. I am half tempted to say she didn't know because she's part of this new social networking slacktivist hipster generation, an assertion the daughter and nieces occasionally make a good effort to show me I'm wrong.
When I was at college, several guys ended up with pink or other colored underwear because they ignorantly put them in the wash with colored clothes and the dyes bled out. Did these guys need a training center? Why or why not?
My first pass at making spaghetti after I moved out, resulted in something resembling a braided brick. Did I need a training center? Why or why not?
* the "sheltered" argument.
None of you, and I do mean none of you, who haven't seen the religiously homeschooled sheltered types, have ever seen sheltered. I'm tellin' you. We're blind, we all get it: We interpret how old or young we think someone is by how they act, their voice, how they carry themselves. Do these sheltered types belong in a training center? Because if I was under obligation to adopt one of these, and she / he / it became of age, I would feel it my duty to go to court to retain them as ward until such time as they could stand competent. Based on the observation of the few that came into my daughter's circle, that is the small confidence I have in their abilities.
* RE: someone going blind.
Makes sense, they need a system where they can learn what it is they need to learn to survive. What makes an out of state, out of home environment, out of city, training center the superior model? Why is it superior, for instance, to someone learning how to thrive on their own turf, where as they learn such things as mobility, they learn places they are likely to visit?
Pardon my use of the absurdum, but environmental biologists who rehabilitate animals into the wild do not do so in some foreign environment. They don't take polar bears to the opposite pole to train them before release. In fact, often it's a fenced off enclosure in or near the environment where they will be released into the wild.
If the mentally ill, who can be a danger to themselves and others, are no longer shut away in institutions, but are now rehabbed in their community, why not someone who goes blind? They're not a threat to society, they may be more or less a threat to themselves by accident, depending, depending on the situation. But if a threat to society is to be rehabbed locally, living in their own community, why not someone who poses no threat at all?
These are relevant questions, and they don't get addressed by the standard dialog and verbiage I've seen in reading about this stuff in the past few years.
Again, it appears to me that there is an industry out there whose market is the blind, who like any product, needs to convince potential consumers that they need the product. I have no problem with this, as I've said elsewhere I consider myself to be at least in large part of the rational objectivist persuasion anyhow. So to someone like me, the free market exchange and fair trade is the most effective way to test the merits of something.
But that means honest dialog about the trade -- which has been done. Nine months here, twelve months there, what have you. But with equity in trade, it's not like religion or these softhead social science things: you don't take the tangible and return some intangible result that only puts out testimonials for simpletons.
I think it remains to be proven the actual benefit, in relation to the exchange, that these places provide. It wouldn't surprise me to learn they are paid for by government money. If they were paid for by independent money from the open market, they would necessarily have to provide something that would be recognizable on the open market.
By "tangible," I of course don't mean only a physical object. Hell, I had to go through some physical therapy for a shoulder injury recently, after a bit of prodding me into it by the Better half. What it cost me? A few hundred bucks, and a few hundred to my insurance company, several hours of sitting being hooked to various things, massaged, manipulated and tweaked in ways I didn't know were humanly achievable. And a few instructions to carry out on a daily basis. Net benefit? Shoulder has improved, and at least the theory it will heal completely if I continue doing what they said.
That's tangible benefit, even if I don't have something in my hand to prove it.
And apparently some of those equipment, and the knowledge, nobody else has, except the physical therapy people.
So with your training center situation, where it's going to cost you 9 months' time, and somebody a significant amount of money, it remains for them to rationally prove their worth, especially their worth over anything you could acquire just through life experience or through people at your local blind services.
None of this is flame, and anyone who is at all familiar with free and equitable trade knows this.
Most of my experience comes from attending Chris Cole. While I agree that these centers are useful for some people, it's been my experience that they do a very poor job serving those who are blind from birth. The concepts that I didn't understand as well as the skills I came in with were very different from the majority, who were 30/40-somethings going blind from diabetes. I was 18.
For awhile the staff had me in Braille class because they didn't know what else to do with me. I already knew Braille, so they tried to get me to spend that period tutoring the other students. I refused, because I figured that from 9 to 5 I was supposed to be taking classes that would prepare me to live independently; tutoring isn't such a class. Instead I offered help after hours. I spent Braille class reading until they put me somewhere else.
Then there was the class called blindness seminar...maybe I shouldn't even bring it up. Let's just say that I had absolutely no need for group grief counseling. My counselor couldn't understand why I didn't need it even though it should have been obvious to any sane person. If I expressed myself too much in seminar I would get flack for not understanding other people's feelings, or something like that. I skipped that class often.
There were good parts, too. I enjoyed industrial arts. Why don't they just call it shop class? I built a chair which my mom still has. Cooking and O&M were also useful as long as I had the right teacher.
There were countless things Chris Cole failed to prepare me for and could have if they had known what they were doing. Examples elude me at the moment. Over all I have to conclude that I would have been better off just getting a place on my own with a little support.
Leo, you raise some excellent points.
The truth is, you're probably right about training being more useful if it's done in an environment that the person is going to be interacting with every day. But, as you've also rightly pointed out, this model of training, and I'm not just talking about structured discovery here, but out of state, out of home training, regardless of the philosophy or lack thereof it employs, has become the norm.
State agencies pay for the bulk of this training. I think some centers also receive grants to stay afloat. Lots of the smaller centers are either shutting down, or rearranging their programs to allow those with multiple disabilities, just so that they can stay open, adjust their funding requirements, etc.
I say all of this because it would probably take a long time for voc rehab agencies to change their minds about what is deemed acceptable training and what isn't. It would take just as long for blind consumers to change their ideas about this, too.
Those of us who have been blind from birth and who have been born in the last 30 years or so have most likely had the experience of being pressured into attending a training center. It will improve your quality of life! It will give you so much more confidence than you ever thought possible! You won't be independent without one! You would think these people are being paid to say such things, but usually, this comes from people who haven't been to a center themselves, but are just parroting what they've heard from others.
It takes a strong person to say "no, I don't think this is for me", or "let me do some research about different centers, their philosophies, and I'll get back to you on that." It's become normal to go to a training center. Most humans don't want to be abnormal, so they just go along with it, never even realizing that they could have gotten just as much out of some alternative way of learning.
There is also some merit in what some others have pointed out here about some blind kids not getting the necessary skills they would need to survive in the world. While I do understand what you're saying about most young adults not knowing everything, whether they're blind or not, it is also true that a sighted child can at least observe some things. They know by watching someone else cook how not to start a fire on the stove. They know by watching others how to clean a home. Of course, some people grow up in filthy conditions, or spend most of their time eating fast food, and they continue these patterns into adulthood. But they also watch TV and movies, so know that there are different standards of living. A blind child might not get this, not in the exact same way a sighted one would.
Having said that, it is unreasonable, unrealistic and unhealthy to expect all blind people to have immaculate living spaces all the time, and to know how to cook delicious 4-course meals. This is another area in which I think those who push the "everyone must go to a training center or else" rhetoric fall flat. If we want to be like everyone else, then normal, human variations in cleanliness, style and employability should be accepted, just as they are in sighted folks.
Finally, a fact that I've always found interesting is that training centers appear to mostly be an American thing. I've always wondered why this is. And would we judge blind people from other countries harshly because they don't have training centers? What are their standards of living for blind folks? I'm not really speaking of developing nations here, where blind people are either seen as lacking for cultural reasons, or there just aren't many oppurtunities for them to work. I mean places like the UK, where the government could surely fund training centers, but don't, from what I understand.
I am half and half on this issue.
The last two posters I can agree with, because it was how I learned to be blind, simply by being blind.
I also learned these life skills by having to deal with these leaks.
Sure, I was fortunate to have training in braille and other skills I feel are necessary in regular school, and I understand others don’t have this.
But, I wonder why not?
If my regular school system could do this, why shouldn’t other school systems be made to do it as well?
On the other hand, if you are not fortunate to have parents, and school systems that attempt to bring you along in the regular community, these centers are good.
It does seem to me, for the cost of one per person, you could get daily help in your own home and place you live.
I have known a few blind persons that wine to training centers, and seem to me to not be better prepared at all, others did well.
Maybe this is due to the person, and also as the last poster points out, the centers not being willing to teach the student exactly what they need, and not waist there time on the things they’ve already got.
If it works for someone, all to the good, but I wonder if a person would benefit more by being taught these skills at home?
GT, these are American because America thrives on this type of enterprise. We know what you need, even if you don't, and we're going to convince you that our product is going to make you successful.
One aspect of advertising the product is not just the pay per click, or the campaigns run in your schools and vision instructors, but the free advertising you just described, your peers telling you how cool it is for you to go, even if they haven't done it yet. Back before Microbrewed beer, guys would say stupid shit like we'll pick up more chicks if we bring along a case of Corona, or yeah let's get some man beer (like Miller), no advertising in sight. Just us, cruising down the highway, top down, trying to hit up a convenience store before hitting the beach or the woods.
The blindness training industry doesn't have TV commercials, perhaps. I haven't seen any ads, anyway. But it has infomercials of another kind, a really successful kind. Someone who you are convinced is authority telling you you need this.
So long as you understand it to be a commercial venture, no more and no less, you're good. Then decide whether you personally want to trade with them.
You say the grubbernment is paying for it, via grants and such, that says a lot.; Grubbernment pays for a lot of things, but society often calls such expenses into question.
Get a hold of some Ayn Rand, she's on Bookshare. I know current academe types are horrified of her lack of a victim mentality, just as the religious are often so for her complete dismissal of gods as inequitable exchange.
Your comment about the fire being started on the stove made me laugh. One of the daughter's friends, perhaps a pair started it, was in the kitchen with a grease fire they'd somehow started. Before she got water on it, I shooed her scuttling and squealing with indignation from the kitchen so I could beat it out with a rag.
She wasn't blind, but when I came out with the rag and pan to toss out the residue, I saw by her demeanor she was probably pretty talented in the pout and sulk department.
For the amount of cooking fires that happen, it seems a pretty common occurrence. and in the situation I experience, my guess is someone was probably texting or doing a selfie or something.
Well, until the school systems take up the place they whould, these centers will be important industry.
Maybe they should be more uniform, but that is difficult maybe to create.
Canada currently does not have a training center, though there is a group trying to get one started by using small steps (seminars and independent living classes).
here's my incoherent thoughts on this:
1) As has already been stated, if you are fortunate to have parents, school systems, or rehab professionals in your area, you are incredibly lucky. That having been said, particularly here in Canada, vision services are funded through charitable donations to the CNIB for the most part. In Alberta, in particular, this will hopefully be changing with our new provincial government.
2) Training centers can be positive experiences if one doesn't already have the resources in place. That being said, what I have seen from many grads of several of them is this one-size-fits-all policy, which can be helpful for some and frustrating for others.
3) The in-home rehab environment HAS been used successfully for a wide variety of conditions or disabilities, so why do blind people in particular need to go away for training? if a particularly sheltered individual lives with family, would in-home ILS training not provide a more open dialogue with the sheltering individual(s) involved? Once someone returns to a sheltering environment from another structured environment, what is to stop the previous dynamics from repeating themselves, or from parents/children quarreling over an adult child's capability because the parent simply hasn't SEEN their child do XYZ?
Told you, incoherent!
Kate
Not incoherent at all, IMHO. You just don't see people rationally address your points, but I think your points are sound.
Leo, I see what you're driving at. I don't have a lot of time right now to address your points one at a time, but I'll just say this. The training center environment is not right for everyone, nor is it necessary for everyone. I know plenty of blind people who did not go to these types of programs that are confident, independent, able to travel safely, use technology, so on and so forth. Some people don't need the Centers. Some are not able to commit that much time to a program, or able to go to a place where they live at the program. A good friend of mine lost his vision about five years ago, but because he's a father of four young children, and had no desire to leave his wife and kids for that prolonged time, he found other ways to get the training he needed. It's up to individuals whether they feel a center environment is right for them. In my case, it was, and I'm glad I went to the Colorado Center for the Blind. However, I wouldn't say that absolutely every blind person, whether born that way or newly blind, should go to one. We won't even get into the needs of people who are deaf-blind, which most blindness centers are woefully inadequate to serve.
To the poster who said most centers aren't good at serving those blind from birth, I would say it depends on the center. If a center isn't willing to alter their program to a degree, then you're right. For example, I didn't need the Braille classes, or most of the technology classes. What I really needed was cane travel, and home management. Once I proved to the staff at CCB that I was proficient at Braille and technology, they allowed me to do extended times of travel or home management class in place of the ones I didn't need. I know that not all Centers are willing to do this, though. Iowa's center was not, which is actually what led me to go to CCB, because they were.
OK, that was not well-written, but you get the idea.
Personally, I prefer the Swedish approach to independence training.
instead of you spending time with them, people come to you, in your own space and they do not wait till you're old enough to get frustrated with sheltering parents to teach you. you get taught by professionals while you're actually growing up. Social services here in Sweden would regard it as abuse for parents to shelter a capable disabled child.
they do recognise however that parents are not able to deal with teaching a child who lacks something like sight, which they rely on so heavily, so they train the parents as well.
That is the case here in the US in some places.
It is the case here in the US in many places. I did receive quite a bit of training in my home environment as a child. However, the training is only as good as those providing it, and not all so-called professionals are good at what they do. While one or two who worked with me were good, many were pretty lousy. That, and while that training was useful for my home environment, my travel training, for example, only taught me route travel, how to get from Point A to Point B of a specific route. I wasn't taught very many transferrable skills. Or when I was taught to cook as a child by these professionals, it was specific recipes, not general cooking skills. I went to the CCB specifically to get out of my home environment, to a place that I was not familiar with. There I learned skills that I could use to travel in any city, or more general skills of cooking, etc. That, and in the case of some centers, most of their staff are blind. This was a big thing for me. It helped me to know that at the end of the day, when they went home, my instructors actualy used these skills they were teaching. They didn't just jump in their cars, drive home, and do everything with their eyes. I'm not saying that having sight makes other teachers bad. It doesn't. I'm just saying that for me personally, having blind instructors was helpful.
Ok, I'm in a rush and just talking off the top of my head here but I wanted to address a couple of points.
In the past, I have worked as a Vocational Rehabilitation Teacher. Here are a couple of things from that vantage point. First of all, like most rehab workers, VRT's are woefully underpaid. I calculated that I was making about $8 per hour after taxes, etc and that was with a bachelor's degree. I'm sorry but you're not going to attract great talent at that rate of pay. Second of all, the caseloads of the traveling teachers do not lend themselves to allow for quality time spent with each consumer. I carried a caseload of about 75 people at a time. I was expected to make 15 home visits per week and my territory covered about 400 square miles some of which was in inner-city Dallas where traffic could stand still. Between those challenges, and pressure from the higher-ups to "close cases quickly," it wasn't possible to provide the intensive training many people wanted. Therefore we would recommend the facility based training. I wish that there were more options for community based training.
Ok, gotta go help the kidlet with spelling words.
Will write more later.
So just to add a twist, this applies to kids / young adults still being supported by parents.
Backstory: in my house, if the daughter or a niece wants something, the rule is rational argument for what it is you want, how it is we're going to pay for it, how it's going to benefit you, and why the cost is reasonable. Similar type question and answer stuff. No drama, no "it's going to make me a better person" or other similar soft(headed) science stuff. Have your emotions, have your dramas, have your feels, but when yu actually want something, reason and rationality is how you argue for it.
So: How many who support these centers would stand up, go to their father, explain why he should pony up the cash, lay out logical arguments like the above? It's easy to just say we want things if the government is just going to give it.
I've actually seen my daughter become stronger, not weaker, in what she wants based on this requirement of mine.
Oh, and as I tell her, testimonials and experiences are not data. Unless I'm expected to pay with play money.
I guess I'm a bit confused by what you're asking, Leo. Are you asking whether I would have asked my parents to pay for this, if they'd had the money, and if I'd still been under their care? The answer is yes, I would have. For me it wasn't just about feelings, or emotions. It was about learning skills that would enable me to live independently, travel safely, use technology, and so on. Those are al things I would need to do once I was out from under my parents roof, or away from their support. Those are skills I needed to be a functioning adult, which, in turn, would definitely better my quality of life, not to mention make me less dependent on said parents. If a parent's goal is for their child to become a capable adult, then I'd think a parent would pay for such training. I'm not sure where you get the idea that these centers are all about feels, as you put it. Yes, feelings are a part of what one experiences, but I've never heard someone say they should go to a center like this simply because it would make them feel good. In some cases, training is very emotionally hard on people, especially in the beginning, so that wouldn't make sense anyway.
CCB was fine in my case as far as kitchen and home stuff, not so much for O&M.
In my case, going to a training center was one of the best things I ever did. It got me out of the small town and away from those who thought I couldn't do anything and told me so on a daily basis. When you have an overbearing mother whose main goal is to feel needed, and you don't have things like the internet or the experiences of other successful blind people to draw upon, there comes a point where you can just be too beaten down to try.
I asked the questions I asked, because it makes one think more concretely when seeking out a sponsor. In this case, it's not enough to prove that training will help, but why that expensive training center is your only option. Since most of us in the working world deal with tradeoffs of one sort or another based on what we can afford. A lot of times when people see the most expensive option, usually the best marketed option, they think it's just what they gotta have. And sometimes? it actually is what they've gotta have. So making them prove it isn't just for the sponsor. It never has been for me when it was a daughter or a niece wanting something. It's for you. It's actually for the benefit of the person who think they want this.
A rural situation, for instance, would make a whole lot of sense.
Ironically, that might be one big step of independence for some peple, having to prove what they want, and why this particular expensive option is the only way to get it. That means you'd know all about the local or less expensive options, because you're playing to win. And, terrible as it sounds, you might change your mind during an investigation where you learned some new info.
Truly this is the most independence oriented thing I can think of to have kids do. And I do understand teenagers hate it: the daughter, nieces, and their collective friends all hated it, getting upset and everything. Now that they're early 20-somethings they're starting to get it. You'd be a lot more solid in your position after defending why it and only it should be paid for, and why more local or less expensive options don't make the grade.
The 'feelings' part I meant was meant in this context.
Well, if it comforts you any, Leo, I did have to justify why CCB was a better option than my own state center which would have been cheaper and closer. I didn't have to justify to my parents, but I did have to do this for my state rehab agency, who would have much preferred me to go to their own program. So, I did get the experience you're talking about.
I completely agree with you, Leo. But here's the thing.
It's somewhat difficult to do unbiased research on these places. Not impossible, mind you, but difficult. I think this is one reason why some people don't bother.
Many of the websites for training centers are outdated. Some have broken links. Some, believe it or not, aren't even all that screen reader friendly! And, most of all, they're plastered with testimonials. You and I, and people who tend to think logically, know that's not a great way to find out what a place like that is really like.
So one could seek out former students, and hopefully get a balanced perspective on the center, its philosophy, and so on. It really depends on how resourceful the person is.
Hello,
I agree with Leo here. If you have been totally blind since birth, why waste your time in a training center? Most of what I have learned with the exception of Braille has come simply by trial and error. After spending some time at the Colorado Center for the Blind and realizing that the NFB philosophy did not fit my lifestyle, I moved on with my life. I am almost finished with my Bachelor's degree, and I believe it is fair mentioning here that the sheltered argument can have various interpretations. I have been residing in an apartment for two years, and just cook from recipes. If and when I feel a training center is appropriate, I will attend one. What does everyone think about structured discovery? I think it is useful in some situations, but not all. Also, it makes a lot more sense to receive training in one's home environment instead of attending an out-of-state facility. Because of the ever accumulating debt and mismanagement of money by the government, rehabilitation agencies have been struggling to stay afloat. So basically, instead of offering top-notch services, the state sends you off somewhere completely different. I think centers do have their place, but I wish more training was provided by the state, not these extremely expensive places. Did you know that some centers are nearly $24,000.00? It's truly amazing that the cost would be so exorbitant.
I believe if you specificly ask, you can get training at home.
Seems to me it is how you set up your program.
First, I did learn some things at a training center.
Second, I was forced to do things that someone with a cracked tailbone shouldn't have to, say, standing till my back and hip hurt.
Noobody's yet taught me how to be blind and cook using a wheelchair. So, if so-called training centers are all that, how come I still have trouble with having to stand up, and cook? For pete's sakes, I'm really sick of people in authority demanding that I "Do it the normal way!"
Last time I sliced home-made bread, the knife flipped off the cutting board, and cut my leg bad enough, I was taken to an emergency room.
I'm forty years old, and it's by happenstance, that I will finally get some kind of in-home training. Only because I signed up for a program that helps people with multiple, or debilitating disorders. Shit! The people backing the program for my training, don't even have: "FOR THE BLIND," attached to the name.
And, guess who taught me most of my training with my wheelchair? Me. I didn't have someone to hold my hand.
And, to ad to this, my friend was sent to a training center, and never made any progress. She was so sheltered, because her own mother was ashamed she had a blind child. I had to turn her in for messing up "our bathroom."
And, no matter how bad my back hurt, I stood for at least 2 hours at a time, in Home-eck, and shop. The only person that even listened to my frustration with the pain, was my Mobility instructor.
Leo, religion isn't the only thing that can cause sheltering. The horrors I've seen and survived, were not becausee of religion, more lack of it.
I didn't really know how to socialize with classmates, till I'd turned eighteen, and actually had a chance to do my own thing.
I'm not saying this to sway someone's view, just sick of hearing how bloody wonderful centers are.
For my second round, I learned computers. Knowledge that, pardon me, but don't mean shit, when I have never seen a computer above Windows-XP. So, all that time, now has no meaning, except I can get on sites like this one, and voice my opinion. But, that's it. Any skills for major computer stuff? Shot to hell, gone like a bad fart, turds in the septic tank, water down the drain, or just plain useless, because XP don't work anymore.
And, I'll probably not ever see professional training for someone who's blind and falls on her ass, due to balance issues. Why? "We've spent way too much money on you, Sarah." They say. Really? Went down the tubes, cause the technology's out of date, and I can't stand for 2 hours, to make them happy. Nobody helped me with my training last year, from our services here, because: "They spent too much on me, already." According to them, this center? I',m a hopeless cause.
I will not prove them wrong for them. I just refuse to continually sit on my ass, while I live on a budget nobody should have to live on, and just watch the world go by. So, even though I have one more class to take, I'm on my own. And, the "Center," could give a shit, what I'm doing to better myself.
If that's harsh, I'm sorry you feel that way. All the time they "wasted," and I and many others are unemployed, and as far as being employed? Well, Sarah's without services, unless she can prove herself to "Their," satisfaction. And, I won't play the "If you do this, we'll do that," game. Done that too often, and got burned.
Peace,
Sarah
Sarah, I'm sorry you went through that. Cooking class is supposed to be fun! I have plenty of my own complaints, though. They mainly boil down to this attitude of theirs: "we'll teach you to be independent, as long as you do exactly as you're told and do not think or ask questions." Anyone who can't see the contradiction there has serious problems.
As they tried with me. Heck. I needed to get a note from my doctor, before the instructors even gave me a break. Duh? It was in my file that I was recently in a serious accident, , and they figured: "It's been over a year. You're better now."
I'm hoping I get better help this time.
God Bless,
Sarah
Good luck Sarah.
sorry hardy boy, but I have seen you travel, and you need training. that sounds mean, but I am really telling you so you hear it from a friend and not someone trying to push a center on you. the point of this post is not to say, you should go to a center because they are the best option out there, I was just trying to clear up a lot of things floating around about them. And there is a reason LCB was 30,000 dollars for 9 months. not only do they give you money to feed you every month, but they pay for the upkeep of the apartment complex or 2, I actually think they have 2 of them, they have to pay for the center, its fleet of drivers and cars, keep the lights on, pay for the large amount of food they use in the multiple kitchens every day, witch is a lot. only reason I know this is because I helped them go shopping one day. They have to keep the AT labs updated so they are not teaching you on outdated stuff, they have to pay the staff who are very skilled in what they do so they are paid accordingly, and the list goes on. If you want to run a good center it takes money to keep everything running in order to give the best instruction they can. And if they have a student who has the state pay for them, they always don't get the money right away. I could see that the budgeting for them can be really tight also, but now I am rambling. I think that training is important no matter what your skill level. I went in thinking I didn't need to learn anything. I could have lived my life just fine without a center. But I ended up improving anyway, and learning things I didn't think I even needed to know. Things that I still use to this day. I can't sit here and say one center is better than any other because I have not been to all of them. But I did choose LCB because the center in Virginia while its improving, is not the best I could get, and I wanted the best I could get if I were to take 9 months off my life that I can get back, working my ass off all day.
Hmm. You have seen me travel. When?
I became blind suddenly when I was 26. Totally unknown territory and if it had not
been for my time at a Blind Center to consistently learn the new skills I needed to be
able to be independent again I don't think I would be anywhere near the independent
person I am today, 29 years later. I would probably agree that they are not for
everyone, especially those who are born blind who come in with a lot of skills already
there, but for those of us who lived in a lifetime of sight and then suddenly are faced
with living blind, they serve a true purpose.
Yes, I can understand how they'd benefit someone that was blind later in life.
Me too. I've actually seen how much it can help those who became blind later in life, as I've personally known several people who have.
Most of our states have centers for newly-blinded people. I've seen a lady who was getting training. I was at the Commission because at the time I was a blind vendor. Anyhow her mobility instructor had her talk to me, I wasn't really sure about what. But she started asking about familiar places in Portland that she had known about when she could see, I mentioned how I go there and do things without sight. I thought I was just standing around waiting to fight over a contract with someone, but this instructor and her charge had some other kind of ideas I'd had no idea about. I don't know if I helped or not, but hope I did.
I say all this, because I'm sure it must have been much easier for that lady being in her own town getting help, learning how to get places she would actually use years later. These places that are out of state seem to me to be more ideological concept places than anything else. Teaching kids to cook food for 40? Hell, I hadn't cooked / put out a party spread for 40 until I owned my own house in my early 30s. And I was pretty drunk at the time, not terribly unusual for me operating grills at parties.
A bit of math and a few calculations is what I most remember from making up the sauce for the meat. But I'm just saying: some of those things that are said to be requirements? My own sighted daughter can't do. And she can be reasonably independent, if somewhat more SJW in her leaning than the old man would particularly care for.
What the hell is SJW? lol
Leo, sometimes, it's simply about confidence. Blind people who have been sheltered and beat down and told that they can't for so long that they have no concept of self-worth, really need that boost, so I think that's where some of the cooking stuff comes in. If they can make a meal for 40, being a bigger task, then cooking for one or 2 will be a breeze. Look at Poetry in Motion's posts and see how proud she was when she accomplished her big meal and you'll get a better understanding.
SJW == social justice warrior.
Ah, thanks.
I get it being a boost for confidence Anthony, but that shouldn't make it a
requirement. That should make it a suggestion. Hey, you can do this, why not
try cooking for everyone, to prove you can. Not, hey, you have no problems
with confidence, but we're going to put you through this troublesome, overly
complicated, highly unrealistic task you have to perform in order for you to
graduate. That's my major problem. I hate being told I'm required to do
something silly, when I'm never going to do it. In Denver, you have to cook a
meal for fifty people. I don't even like fifty people.
The thing I'd be curious about is whether I'd be allowed to just boil up a low
country boil and have everyone serve themselves. something simple like that,
or does it have to be an actual meal. Cuz if its an actual meal, I've never met
anyone who did that for fifty people and didn't own a restaurant. even at family
holidays people bring their own food.
valid point. When there's more than 10 or 12 people, I start getting uneasy, even if I don't have to cook for them. LOL I don't like crowds.
Leo, I don't know much about you, but from your posts I'd venture to guess that you were rather lucky in that you either learned independence-related skills on your own, or had people teach them to you.
As has been said, the reason training centers like the Louisiana Center for the Blind have their students do things like cook a meal for 40 people, make things in wood shop class or perform an out-of-town route, is to show people that they can do it. That even if they never do any of those things again, they've done them once, which should give them confidence to succeed in the world as a whole--it has nothing to do with feelings, warm fuzzies or anything else that I've seen you bring up before.
Although I've been a student at the LCB, I'd never again tell anyone that every blind person needs to go to a training center. The most I'll say is that you never know what you may learn there, but if you don't feel it's for you, it's best not to waste anyone's time (including yours). I'm just speaking to the general you here.
Something I don't think has been brought up is the fact that just because a person has been blind their whole life, doesn't mean he or she "knows" how to live well.
Take it from someone whose been blind since birth: I didn't know how to do many daily living type stuff, or even household-related stuff, till I was 19 and was taught how to do those things at the LCB. I didn't like not knowing how to cook for myself, travel independently, ETC, but I knew deep down that I would eventually find some way to get out of that hole. That's just my experience though.
Chelsea, I'm sure that's true, and I'm sure that plenty of congenitally blind people were/are in a similar situation. But when I went to Criss Cole, they seemed very bad at assessing what I already knew and what needed to be taught. One time we were playing a memory game with Braille cards and I decided to cheat by reading the Braille through the holes on the back. I wanted to see how observant the teacher was. It took her forever to catch on and I had to make it painfully obvious.
Dody, you are confidence.
Many times people are not, so you give them a task that seems difficult.
That builds confidence in them.
If you suggest a person that isn't confidence, make a meal for 40 or 60 people, they'll say, no, I don't think I can do that, so I'll not.
But, if you make is a requirement, they have to try. Once they succeed, even to a point, you've bumped them over that sticking point.
I've never been to one of these centers, I simply never needed one, but I can see why that might be a requirement.
Why they choose that specific task, I'm not sure. It could be done with something else.
Maybe people like to eat, so.
Laughing.
Fair points all. Cody's right, when cooking for a party, other people bring stuff. Especially of that size. Certainly you might have bought many pounds of meat for grilling or smoking, but people are bringing beer and other food.
ok, here goes with my thoughts. first f all, kleo, waaaaay at the top of this post you dissed home schoolers. since I chose and carried out this form of education with my children, I tak exception to what you said. yes, there are some who are home schooled that are sheltered too much. there are some regularly educated children that have the same issue. the helicopter parents of today make me ill. these are folks withregular kids. don't let them play outside. something might happen. oh heavens johny can't play in the dirt. my god it has germs in it. oh gosh my child can't swing on a swing. he might get hurt. excuse me? have I out lived my usefulness?
tying this in to the subject at hand, I never attended one of those places. my parents taught me stuff and then like my sighted brother I was told to jump in to the pond of life and either sink or swim. yes I made mistakes and did dumb stuff. hey that's part of maturation. as miss frizzle on my favorite kid's show of the 90s magic school bus would say "take chances make mistakes get messy."
a rehab center is to life as a fish is to a bicycle. institutions never will and never can be real life. they have their own culture and their own reality.
Turricane, fair points. And I do love what you said about the centers, using the fish / bicycle analogy.
Just wow!
I think if there is a mismatch between product and needs, training not what folks really
could use, it is because we are not the buyers. Third parties pay the bills, and we are not
in any position to prescribe or authorize stuff ourselves. So the services are marketed to
those who make decisions. College trained blind counsellors and social workers who are
sighted and only know this is the way we handle x situation. With most blind folk lacking
any real wealth, capitalism ain't talking to us, any more than. Pedigree markets to dogs...
Post 49 makes some good points. I think some centers have more of a culture to them than others do though.
I'd have done much better, with 1-on1 help, in high school. I had some, but I needed a lot more. I wish I knew then, what I know now, about my situation.
Blessings In Christ,
Sarah
I guess the best teacher is experience, but I also had parents that for the most
part didn't shelter me. Maybe they tried but I never took no for an answer. They
are very SJ lets just do it the way we've always done it types. Too bad you can't
do it still do it. Do it for yourself what's wrong with you? Do you see what we
do? we want you to be like that. So, no, Blindness wasn't an excuse for
anything, saying I am blind I can't do it is a poor excuse in their book. OH you
better find a way shan't you? I think some need it but also some need a lot. I
had one person come out to teach me ILS stuff and it was honestly mostly a
waste of time. Some ideas was a little useful but it's like oh yeah, you can do it
that way can't you? Sometimes on large spread out campuses O&m can
sometimes be useful, but mostly not. I am so NT the in my head type that it's
so easy for me to get lost. the most important thing is to pay attention for me.
I guess I say all this to say, well maybe I guess they can be useful, if it floats
your boat, but I also like the sink or swim method too.
I do think they do under prepare people though, I don't like the system much
and it usually doesn't give them much more than a sheltered view. I think the
NFB centers is better but it'll still be a waste of time for me. I don't try to tell
others what to do though or how to think. I do think it's a bit silly honestly. Just
learn by experience, you'll get it.
I don't understand why such centers need to be around even. Get out in the world and hoof it. Allow yourself to be influenced by thoughs who have made it and you will do the same. Training indeed!
Having been to one of those centers, I can say without a shadow of a doubt
that the idea of just getting out and doing it would be a good way to get people
to eat nothing but microwaved food for the rest of their lives and die of heart
failure weighing 900 pounds. A lot of those people were mere inches away from
utterly helpless.
I blame the parents.
if its the parents or lack of knolege, training centers are needed. some blind people don't have families or friends who are willing to take the time to show them how to do things, or they may not know how to teach a blind person. so telling someone to go out into the world and learn it is easy to say if you have the resources, drive, or know how to do so.